WWU Assistant Professor of Sociology Pat Gillham was on National Public Radio's "All Things Considered" yesterday talking about his research, which specializes in police response to crises such as riots or mass protests, and what his data shows in terms of what the best way to de-escalate these events are. Gillham, who has spent the last 20 years working on this topic, talked about why some departments continue to choose to use hard-line tactics even though all the research points to other methodologies being far more effective at de-escalation - because the police are often unable to differentiate between peaceful protesters working for social justice and looters bent on causing havoc and destruction.